Pentastar upgrades
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Thread: Pentastar upgrades

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    Default Pentastar upgrades

    So, I tend to dig stupidly deep into things. And I'm bored. Apparently some of the newer vehicles have gotten engine upgrades. Was hoping we could benefit, but unless I can get my hands on wiring schematics, can't verify they will work. This is in relation to Pentastar v6's.

    1. Higher output COPs. Was hoping this would be plug and play. But they went to a three pin connector from a two pin. The new pin is a ground, and one of the other pins switched circuit numbers even though it's still labeled as "FUSED ASD RELAY OUTPUT", but that could simply be a vehicle/ECM specific difference. Schematic would verify the difference, and depending on that new specific ground circuit.....might be able to use them simply by using the three pin connector and running the 3rd/new pin to ground, or the specific ground circuit.

    2. New "8 hole" fuel injectors. Connector stayed the same, but pins swapped. And like the COPs, the circuit number changed. Labeling changed from "ASD RELAY OUTPUT" to "FUSED ASD RELAY OUTPUT", but harness wire colors stayed the same. I believe with a simple pin swap and tune, these could be used. Would have to verify fuel pressures and pulse widths and see if that changed. Wouldn't benefit very much (best guess 3hp, but likely a slight MPG increase). IF they also released a higher flow version that could be used with an e85 tune, there would be a larger increase of power do to better atomization, which would increase heat absorption properties of running e85.

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    I asked FCA about this. My understanding is that they never went into the 200. They were going to start in 2018 - the only Pentastars that have gotten the update thus far are the LX and related SUVs (Grand Cherokee / Durango).

    No CUSW car has gotten the "PUG" yet, but they are all supposed to this fall for 2018 MY.

    I seriously doubt it would be worth the effort to modify a 200 with PUG retrofits. In theory we could drop in a new PUG once the Cherokee or Pacifica gets it, but the ECU changes alone would kill the benefit.

    You're talking maybe 10-15 hp and maybe 1-3 mpg. Get a lifetime Mopar warranty and have your dealer install a Mopar CAI.
    2015 200S V6 FWD - Mopar Lifetime Maximum Care Warranty

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    Grand Cherokee, Dodge Pacifica, and Durango have had it since 2016 model. I know what has it and what doesn't. And how to make it work. The power train warranty is OK if you aren't able to do the work yourself. Too me it wasn't worth it for the price I was quoted. The CAI is too much as well, and IMO poorly designed. As all the others. Not a true cold air setup.

    Been running engine dynos for over a decade. Have my hands in LS7, LC3, LSA, LS9, and LNF testing/development. Thats just the GM stuff. Not to metion the other companies and diesel work.

    Unfortunately there's not a whole lot of aftermarket for this platform. And any slight increase in power or efficiency is a bonus no matter how you look at it. Was just trying to get some ideas flowing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by gokart2 View Post
    The CAI is too much as well, and IMO poorly designed. As all the others. Not a true cold air setup.
    I agree that the Mopar CAI is overpriced, however, if you do some reading on here, there is a member that proved by just eliminating the intake resonator connected to the throttle body, ~15 Ft.Lbs of torque is gained to the wheels. He did this on a dyno. He also tested another intake, no longer for sale.

    The Mopar CAI and a few others have eliminated this resonator. I have an intake - the one used in the dyno test and the difference is noticeable, the only thing I don't like is that it's pretty loud, I am sure the Mopar CAI is quieter. It wasn't nearly as pricey as the Mopar CAI so I am happy with it.

    There's a member on the FB page that has done quite a few modifications to his 200 - enough to make the transmission overheat and the car go into limp mode until it cools down etc... There's some aftermarket for this vehicle, ported lower intake manifold, larger injectors, tune, larger TB etc... but since the vehicle is not dime a dozen riced out modified like a Camaro, Mustang, or Honda Civic, the parts are more expensive etc... and harder to find.
    Last edited by Black Knight; 03-09-2017 at 06:02 PM.
    "Black Knight" was my father's trucker CB handle.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Black Knight View Post
    I agree that the Mopar CAI is overpriced, however, if you do some reading on here, there is a member that proved by just eliminating the intake resonator connected to the throttle body, ~15 Ft.Lbs of torque is gained to the wheels. He did this on a dyno. He also tested another intake, no longer for sale.

    The Mopar CAI and a few others have eliminated this resonator. I have an intake - the one used in the dyno test and the difference is noticeable, the only thing I don't like is that it's pretty loud, I am sure the Mopar CAI is quieter. It wasn't nearly as pricey as the Mopar CAI so I am happy with it.

    There's a member on the FB page that has done quite a few modifications to his 200 - enough to make the transmission overheat and the car go into limp mode until it cools down etc... There's some aftermarket for this vehicle, ported lower intake manifold, larger injectors, tune, larger TB etc... but since the vehicle is not dime a dozen riced out modified like a Camaro, Mustang, or Honda Civic, the parts are more expensive etc... and harder to find.
    Seen all the resonator delete stuff, and that's the first place I started working. Going to get an 80mm Hemi throttle body (the one overkill sells) eventually so I went with 3.5" piping from the air box to the TB. Prototype #1 has been on a few weeks, gonna change the design up just a tad, then take it to my bender and have a single aluminum piece done. Current is mild steel 3 piece just for mocking/testing.

    Was stuck calculating and determining whether I was going to pipe into the fender for a true cold air setup. I came to the conclusion that the OEM setup is actually designed quite well. Started comparing the CFM flows of the K&N panel filter against all the cone styles and found the panel outflows them drastically. So I'm going to drop the panel in, modify the contraption in the fender well (cut the moisture box off, it's not a resonator like everyone thinks) so its more of a straight shot to the air box. Believe this should be optimal.

    Going to do the porting of the manifolds as well when I get the TB ready to install. Also have exhaust gaskets coming to start mocking the flanges for the.....downpipe/header/manifold pipe. Last plan I haven't seen here is the dog bone trans mount. That was a HUGE improvement on past vehicles. Gonna grab this in the softest range and beef up the rear most bushing. There should be enough for a few mounts, so was planning on trying to purchase a couple in case anyone else want's one.

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    Quote Originally Posted by gokart2 View Post
    ...I came to the conclusion that the OEM setup is actually designed quite well. Started comparing the CFM flows of the K&N panel filter against all the cone styles and found the panel outflows them drastically...


    Music to my ears, LOL.

    I've previously pointed out here that the factory setup already is a well designed cold air intake (as did former member and modder PITT early on) and also that no one had yet demonstrated that a "CAI"-style cone filter would flow more in this application (i.e., provide better performance) than a K&N panel in the OE housing. Which is why I've only bothered to substitute the K&N panel for the OE paper filter and the "Torque Tube" for the factory resonator. Best proven bang for the buck, and very simple to accomplish.

    Please do continue to keep us posted on your further mods.
    Last edited by Black Knight; 03-10-2017 at 03:39 PM. Reason: typo fix requested by Pennhaven
    200C AWD
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    OE Bridgestone Ecopias Replaced w/ Yokohama YK580s
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pennhaven View Post


    Music to my ears, LOL.

    I've previously pointed out here that the factory setup already is a well designed cold air intake (as did former member and modder Pitt early on) and also that no had yet demonstrated that a "CAI"-style cone filter would flow more in this application (i.e., provide better performance) than a K&N panel in the OE housing. Which is why I've only bothered to substitute the K&N panel for the OE paper filter and the "Torque Tube" for the factory resonator. Best proven bang for the buck, and very simple to accomplish.

    Please do continue to keep us posted on your further mods.

    PITT was who I was talking about that did the dyno tests and removed the resonator attached to the TB. I bought his "CAI". If I had money laying around just wanting to be spent I would buy the "torque tube" myself and put in an AEM dry flow panel filter in because the Underground Performance CAI that PITT designed is a little loud for my taste.
    Last edited by Black Knight; 03-10-2017 at 03:42 PM. Reason: I can't type without errors to save my life
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    Quote Originally Posted by Black Knight View Post
    PITT was who I was talking about that did the dyno tests and removed the resonator attached to the TB. I bought his "CAI". If I had money laying around just wanting to be spent I would buy the "torque tube" myself and put in an AEM dry flow panel filter in because the Underground Performance CAI that PITT designed is a little loud for my taste.
    Yep, reported noise level was another reason I decided a "full" aftermarket CAI might not be worth it for me.

    BTW my post should have read "...that no one had yet demonstrated..." Also, of course, his handle is actually PITT not "Pitt".

    Only being allowed to edit our posts for ten minutes is something I've wished to have changed ever since I joined here. No matter how hard I try, I'll continue to miss my typos until long after that time limit. IMO there is no good reason to limit the ability to edit at all. I can't think of another forum I've been a member of that has this restriction.
    Last edited by Black Knight; 03-10-2017 at 03:45 PM. Reason: Fixed my quoted typo
    200C AWD
    Granite Crystal / Linen
    Safety Tec, Premium, Navigation & Sound
    Premium Lighting
    Replaced OE HID bulbs with Morimoto 5,500K
    18"
    OE Bridgestone Ecopias Replaced w/ Yokohama YK580s
    Mopar All-Weather Mats, Cargo Net, Cargo Area Tray
    Reverse, Interior, Trunk and License Plate
    LED Conversion
    3M
    Color Stable Glass Tint - Visor 35%, Side & Rear 50%
    K&N Drop-in Air Filter, RPM Motorsports Torque Tube
    MGP Black Caliper Covers, TitaniumTim 200C Coasters

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pennhaven View Post

    Only being allowed to edit our posts for ten minutes is something I've wished to have changed ever since I joined here. No matter how hard I try, I'll continue to miss my typos until long after that time limit. IMO there is no good reason to limit the ability to edit at all. I can't think of another forum I've been a member of that has this restriction.
    I had the same typo. I do the same thing. Fixed both.
    Last edited by Black Knight; 03-10-2017 at 03:43 PM.
    "Black Knight" was my father's trucker CB handle.

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    2013 Chrysler 200 Limited V6
    Lease returned 1/28/17


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    Quote Originally Posted by Black Knight View Post
    I would buy the "torque tube" myself and put in an AEM dry flow panel filter in
    I have searched for an AEM and haven't found one? Have you seen one? Only drop in I've seen is the K&N. I prefer the AEM dryflow, but the K&N is fine.

    Here's the filter data I noticed. The K&N drop in panel nets 511.6 cfm @ 1.5 inH2O while the cone filter on the CAI nets 343.7 cfm @1.5 inH20. That's a big difference. So the K&N CAI which is the more restrictive filter and 3.25" od tube that bypasses the rubber "flex tube", and the torque robbing resonator adds 10hp/20ft lbs.... I can only imagine what a less restrictive air filter and 3.5" od tubing to the TB is going to net. Only thing that has me in question is how the contraption in the fender well is going to effect things. I have ideas for that though.

    Was talking with a few guys at work. Our cars use a Continental ECU which is what we use, was wondering if our calibration software would mesh with an unlocked ECU. Found FCA is like Ford and GM, they use ETAS INCA software to calibrate. That's expensive and hard to get a hold of (plus the can-bus communication stuff that is mainly ETAS only). So, found some other things and am thinking I may be able to finagle CANape to work. Which I think I can get my hands on without costing much more then a comm cable. Would really like to not have to spend ~$1000 for HPtuners setup. This is probably wishful thinking though.

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