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2015 Chrysler 200S AWD Starting Issues...

85K views 88 replies 26 participants last post by  fltru103 
#1 ·
I got my 200S on July 31st. The car worked great for about 5 days, but then I started having an issue where if I left the car parked in the sun, it wouldn't start. Sometimes it'd start up after a minute or two, but other times it'd take a while. At it's worst it took a few hours before i could get it to start. When the car won't start it pops up messages that say "service trans stop safely shut off engine to engage park" and "service park brake" sometimes when this happens it'll also pop up messages that say "AWD unavailable" "service AWD" "performance shifting unavailable". After getting the car to finally start after a non start, the check engine light will stay on for a couple of drive cycles... usually enough for me to drive to and from work, but then will turn itself off. Those are just the consistent problems...

Once after getting all those messages, I finally got it started, got about a mile down the road and started to get an awful shudder under acceleration... almost like the feeling when anti lock brakes are doing their thing, but only when I pressed the gas. The check engine light also flashed at this point. I pulled over turned the car off and then back on and other than the check engine light staying on, the problem was gone. Another time after a non start, I finally got it to start and was pulling out of the parking lot to realize that the car wouldn't shift out of first gear... tried paddle shifters and got the "performance shifting unavailable" and the "service AWD" and "AWD unavailable" messages. Pulled over, turned the car off and back on, and once again, other than the check engine light staying on, everything was back to "normal". Once when getting ready to leave for work in the morning, it was cool out and the car actually started, but popped up messages saying "Service airbag system" "service antilock brake system" "electronic brakes offline" and "performance shifting unavailable" in this instance the ABS warning light also came on, and the rotary shifter locked and wouldn't let me take the car out of park for about 5 minutes. As before I turned the car off and back on again (this time it took a couple of tries) and eventually the car was fine and the check engine light turned off after the normal couple of drive cycles.

I originally took the car back to the dealership on August 8th, they kept it for a few days but at the time couldn't find anything wrong with it and got it back to me on the 12th. I had a non start shortly after but then the car ran flawlessly for about 2 weeks, we'd had some mild weather here in VA and I guess the car was in a good mood. I started having issues again when it got hot outside towards the end of August and took it back into the dealership on August 26th. I explained that most of the issues had been when it was hot out and this time they experienced some of the issues i'd been having. They kept the car for 10 days and through process of elimination had thought that they'd narrowed the problem down to a faulty ABS module, which they replaced. They explained that when the car won't start, it's completely dead. They can't interface with the car's computer systems at all. Once the car finally starts they are able to start pulling codes from the computer, and said that it spit out about 8 pages of error codes. I got the car back September 5th on my way to work and immediately parked it in the sun, just to make sure it was actually fixed... this was unfortunately not the case. Same issues "service trans stop safely shut off engine to engage park" and "service park brake". At this point I took the car back to the dealership, and was told by the service manager that he was going to need the car for a month this time because it was such an intermittent problem, that he was going to need time to make sure it got fixed. My salesman at the dealership is a long time friend and had recommended that i call Chrysler directly and file a customer service claim with them before I left the car for a month. So I headed back home with my car, from this point on the problems with the car got worse. Instead of only getting non starts when it was hot out, I was consistently getting them every night after work, after it had cooled down for the day. It seemed to be just as bad if not worse when it was cool out. I found that if I popped the hood on the car and took off the engine dress up cover, after letting it sit for about 10 minutes I could generally get it to start. At this point I was beyond frustrated, This being a $30,000 NEW car I did not want to go through another lengthy repair process, I was ready for Chrysler to step up and replace this massively defective car. When I called Chrysler's customer service they assigned me a case manager, who for all intents and purposes, i'm sure, was doing his job as he'd been instructed to do it. But I felt like he was reading off of a card and saying the things he's supposed to say, like "we're sorry for all the trouble you're having" etc... but really had no intention of replacing this car. He instructed me to take the car back to the dealership for another round of repairs, which I immediately did, however reluctantly. I dropped the car off September 16th and spent another 10 days in a rental car.... as of writing this I've owned this car for 58 days and have spent 23 of those days in a rental car. I got the call that they had traced the problem to some connector pins that connected to the transmission control module not making good contact and basically tricking the computer into thinking the car wasn't in park, thus leading to a non start. They fixed that and I went to pick up the car today (september 26th)... As before, wanting to make sure it was actually fixed this time, I parked the car in the sun for about 2 hours, hoping that this was about to all be behind me and I could finally start enjoying my new car. "service trans stop safely shut off engine to engage park" and "service park brake" NO start. I popped the hood, took off the engine dress up cover, let it sit for 15 minutes, finally got it started, and drove it right back to the dealership for what is my 4th time leaving it with their service department. I have driven more rental cars in the two months that i've owned this car, than the car I actually purchased.

I will say that the service department at Koons Chrysler in Tyson's Corner, is top notch. These guys have been banging their heads against the wall with this car and have been absolutely superb to deal with through this whole ordeal. My service advisor Justin, and the tech Jim who have been working on my car from the start are great dudes, and have been trying sooo hard to make this right. Much respect and thanks to those guys. I am however beyond frustrated with chrysler at this point. They can spend as much time as they need to to fix this car, but it shouldn't be MY time. It's time for chrysler to step up and replace this car, the ball's in your court guys, make this right.
 
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#3 ·
I'm going to agree with eclipxe, if the dealer is a good dealer, and I have heard Koons is a decent dealer to work with. Have them replace this lemon.

Strange that we have had several people say similar issues with their 200 not starting like this. Just to let you know one of the owners had to have his fuel pump replaced to fix similar non start issues. So I don't know if yours is a similar issue or not.

When was this car built? Or what was the cars manufacturer date shown on one of the stickers? I'm curious if it was one of the first one's built. I know it doesn't excuse this issue, but am curious.
 
#4 ·
The car is at the dealership now while they try to figure it out, but it says on some of the paperwork I have from one of the previous repairs that the production date is 5/19/14.

I told the case manager with chrysler that I thought it should be replaced, as this is a new car and with so many repairs in the first two months it's really getting ridiculous. Didn't really get anywhere with him, but I haven't been able to get him on the phone since I had the problem yesterday. The dealership told me to go through chrysler, so i haven't really been able to get anywhere with them either. I'm within my rights to take legal action after taking it in yesterday, i'm going to wait and see what the guy from chrysler has to say on monday... But it looks like this is the direction things are going.
 
#9 ·
I have had some issues with my car but nothing like your issues...What scares me though is that our build dates are exactly the same...May 19th.
 
#5 ·
You know, this is at least the third owner here reporting a similar issue. I'm not jumping to conclusions but these cases do sound similar to the TIPM (Total Integrated Power Module) issue that Chrysler has been dealing with on earlier models.

Recent Chrysler TIPM news items:
New York Times 8/22/14
Jalopnik 8/28/14

If that were the issue though it would be puzzling why they seem to have so much trouble quickly diagnosing and correcting the problem. So maybe it's actually an intermittent vehicle wiring harness issue that's a lot harder to troubleshoot.
 
#6 ·
The guys at the service department have been in constant contact with engineers at chrysler, trying to fix my car. The service advisor at the dealership said he's never seen anything like this. The tech working on the car said that he and the engineers have basically been throwing darts at it trying to pinpoint the issue, but it seems like they have no idea what's wrong with it at this point. The service advisor said he'd heard of something similar, where somebody had a car (not a chrysler) and was having intermittent issues over the course of about 4 years before they finally tracked it down to being a bad wiring harness.

It's all really a shame, I love the car when it's working... But every time I walk out to it I get this feeling of dread wondering if it's going to start when I get in. Definitely not what I was hoping for with my first new car.
 
#7 ·
The guys at the service department have been in constant contact with engineers at chrysler, trying to fix my car. The service advisor at the dealership said he's never seen anything like this. The tech working on the car said that he and the engineers have basically been throwing darts at it trying to pinpoint the issue, but it seems like they have no idea what's wrong with it at this point. The service advisor said he'd heard of something similar, where somebody had a car (not a chrysler) and was having intermittent issues over the course of about 4 years before they finally tracked it down to being a bad wiring harness...
I had a '99 Grand Cherokee (built early in the first year of an all new model) that kept having fuel pump/sender failures. After the 3rd fuel pump replacement I had yet another (4th) failure and got fed up enough to insist that the dealer service manager look harder at the problem. That is when they finally put a tech on it who was sharp enough to diagnose that it was actually a faulty wiring harness.

Unfortunately I think it is past time for Chrysler to buy back your car as they did for Kmoeses. It would be interesting to know if the engineers eventually did figure out what the issue with his car was. But obviously what they are attempting with your dealer's service department isn't working. Probably the best hope is for Chrysler engineers to be driving the car every day until they figure out what the issue is. And they should want to do this to get to the bottom of the problem so they don't continue to build cars that are going to create as much customer dissatisfaction as this one. The last thing they need is put more cars with this issue into the hands of owners. It makes for great advertising when people see you repeatedly having to dissamble your engine of your brand new Chrysler to try to get it to start.
 
#8 ·
I've got my fingers crossed that chrysler will make this right. The problems started a few days after I got the car, and I've been dealing with their service department since. Virginia lemon laws state that if the vehicle is in for repairs for the same issue 3 times or more with no resolution, or 30 days of total repair time in the first 18 months. That the manufacturer is obligated to provide a replacement vehicle of equal value or a refund. I don't want to get into a legal battle with them, but as I understand they're pretty much required to replace it at this point.
 
#12 ·
I learned that the only way to deal with a big corporation is with attorney's.
Hire a well advertised "Lemon Law" firm and let them handle the case.
Take my advice, it worked for me back in 2000 with a Chrysler Concorde.
I drove the car for a full year and got every cent back, including taxes !

You may not want to get into a legal battle, but it's your hard earned money.

BTW, the attorney fees are paid by Chrysler, not you.
 
#10 ·
I hope that it all works out and everything is fixed (even if you get a brand new baby with an additional feature possibly)...
 
#13 ·
If you had a chance to read a previous thread of mine, I had a long drawn out process to replace my vehicle. I wish I could say what was exactly wrong with the vehicle but I never was given a clear explanation. As far as my negotiations, Chrysler paid my car payments throughout the process and honestly never gave me a problem. I never contacted a lawyer throughout the process. Hope things work out an Chrysler continues to provide the great customer service received.
 
#14 ·
I spoke with my case manager from chrysler yesterday, and he still seemed reluctant to even talk about replacement of this car. I had asked before the most recent problem on Friday for them to cover my last payment... But before I'd heard back from him on that I had to drop it off again because these problems are still not resolved. When I spoke with him on Monday I told him since I've had problems from the beginning, I need them to cover the first payment I made as well as the one I was originally asking them to cover, and any subsequent payments until this is resolved. His response was "well, we said we'd cover one payment." Every time I talk to this guy I like him a little less. He genuinely seems more interested in avoiding the liability of replacing this car than anything else. He keeps saying "we really want you to have a good experience with us" which feels like insult to injury at this point. I've worked in sales/customer service for years, and this is not how it's done. I've spoken with my service advisor at the dealership repeatedly, and he has even told the case manager at Chrysler that this vehicle needs to be replaced. Multiple times. I feel that my only option at this point is legal action. I've contacted a local law firm that specializes in lemon law cases and they've pointed me in the right direction. It's just really frustrating dealing with a company so **** bent on not standing by their product. Really frustrated.
 
#15 ·
You have to wonder how these case managers' performance is assessed by management. Are they incentivized to not give in to the customer? No doubt they have a protocol to follow in order to keep costs under control, but early on with a new model there are typically going to be problems and the way to make these problems right is to go overboard to satisfy the customer. Otherwise bad word of mouth can easily spoil the reputation of the vehicle, hurting sales and costing the company a lot more.
 
#16 ·
Update: I got a phone call from my case manager at chrysler today, saying that he was going to escalate this up to the replacement division. It's funny I'd sent an email to my service advisor at the dealership last night, asking for some paperwork the law firm needed to get the legal process started. Not saying the two are related it's just funny how things work sometimes. The case manager at chrysler said that this doesn't mean that the replacement process has started officially... but it seems like things are finally moving in the right direction.
 
#17 ·
I'm also experiencing issues with my car, nothing like yours but small issues are piling up and my first case manager was one of the worst person I have ever talked to. she was not listening to me, just repeating that she wanted me "to have a nice experience with the company and that Chrysler would honor its warranty and fix my car". The last time I spoke to her, I hang up on her as I didn't know what else to tell her to get her to listen to me. She never took my feelings into consideration. There's more to just fixing the car in these stories, there's the mental side of it too. I'm sad because I invested 34k$ of hard earned money into a new car and never had the opportunity to appreciate it, I'm sad because co-workers are making fun of me for "buying another shitty Chrysler product" and I'm sad because my brother bought a Ford Fusion six months ago and he didn't have an issue yet. 3 months after buying it, I can't see the car in my driveway anymore because I don't know what new issue will pop tomorrow. It gives place to discussion with the wife too and so on so there's more than just "honoring the warranty" and it's called customer care and satisfaction.

Someone else took over the case since yesterday and we'll see where we get from here but the first contact was very positive. I asked for a replacement, if at all possible, and I even told them that I was willing to pay a small fee to trade to show them my good will. I'd rather pay 2000$ and trade it now than keep it and pay 2000$/year in repairs of all sorts once the car is out of warranty. I just can't see myself with this car for 5 or 6 more years given all the issues. basically, I've come to a point where I hate my car and I don't want it anymore. If I trade it, I will choose another color just to make sure that I totally forget about this one.
 
#18 ·
I just got off the phone with my case manager at Chrysler, He informed me that they are going to reimburse me for my first two payments, but that it won't be till they fix my car. He also said that as of now they will not be replacing my car, they will continue with trying to repair it. Chrysler is in clear violation of the law at this point. I went down to the dealership today to get some paperwork that I needed to start the legal process, and my service advisor told me that no progress has been made on my car since I dropped it off last Friday, because the tech who's been working on it from the start was out recovering from cataract surgery. My case manager told me over the phone that he'd just spoken with the same service advisor and had been told they're waiting on technical advice from Chrysler. So now he's flat out lying to me as well. I am totally cool with cutting the service department at the dealership some slack... they've been amazing so far, and from talking to my service advisor have been telling Chrysler to replace this car for about a month now. I am absolutely not cool with being lied to by Chrysler. This isn't really a matter of whether they're replacing this car anymore... Virginia law states that after 3 repairs and/or 30 days of total repair time they HAVE to replace the car or give me a refund. it's a matter of how long they're going to continue to waste my time before replacing it, how much my lawyer is going to cost them in addition to my new car, and whether my new car will be a Chrysler... after seeing how they value their customers, i'm thinking I'll be going with something else. Which is really a shame because I loved this car before I started having all of these problems.

Fernboy61, I know all too well about the embarrassment you're talking about. When you get a new car you should be proud of it, sounds like both of our experiences have been the opposite of that so far. Seems like our case managers at Chrysler are definitely reading off of the same script. Mine said all the same things about honoring the warranty. It's really a shame that the customer experience isn't more important to a company desperately trying to break into the most competitive segment in cars right now. I was originally looking at the Kia Optima, and the Honda accord, before buying this car. My salesman at the dealership originally, is a long time friend, and I called him to ask his opinion on those cars. He asked if i'd seen the 200 (which I hadn't at that point) and after researching it a bit I was sold, and it meant I could buy it from my friend. It's turning out to have been a very very bad decision. Every time I see an Optima on the road I wind up gripping the wheel on my rental car a little tighter. Chrysler seems more interested in dodging a bullet than any kind of customer care. The stress and time i've missed from work alone should be worth something to Chrysler. My advice to anybody considering this car would be to pass and get something from a company that actually values their customers.
 
#19 ·
Hey Majorstean, I agree the Optima is cool looking, but if you go that route, please verify the dealership service is good first. I had a 2006 Sedona that I could not get Kia or 4 different dealers to fix a sticking valve issue that left my family and I stranded several times. Starting the day after I had bought it. Yea, that too was a first year car. I must be glutten for punishment, because I always have to buy first year cars and most of them I have had issues.

But yes Kia touts 10yr / 100k drivetrain warranty and 5yr/50k on everything else, but I could never get them to honor numerous stuff on it to be fixed. Somehow they blamed other reasons for the issues.
 
#20 ·
It really is a shame that buying a new car has to be such a horrible experience these days. If a product isn't ready to be rolled out it should be held back till they're sure it's 100% functional. I get that something so new could have problems nobody could have anticipated... But getting such fierce push back from the manufacturer when the product is CLEARLY defective is something I never would have dreamed of. It's not like we're talking about small issues either, If i were asking for a new car because there was some minor issue, I could see some push back... But not starting is a pretty HUGE issue. Having "airbags unavailable" and "electronic brakes offline" error messages is a HUGE issue. Not being treated like a human being by a CUSTOMER SERVICE representative is a HUGE issue. The old cliche rings true, hindsight is 20/20.
 
#21 ·
Majorstean, I'm with you. As far as I'm concerned, my issues are pretty minor, and it is a mix of different circumstances that turned my experience into a gong show (Wrong parts being sent by Chrysler time after time after time, parts flying on the freeway, not acting as expected or falling for no apparent reasons and a technician screwing up my windshield)I've been to the dealership between 10 and 12 times in 3 months for minor issues that are still not fixed...To me, it is all about customer experience and respect of your customer. I've lost work time, I've lost family time, I've lost personnal time, I'm losing my time point blank. all the embarrasment that I've experienced with frieds and co workers is also frustrating.

Chrysler made me a proposition that I will accept but before accepting it officially, I've asked Chrysler and the dealer to cut me a deal on a new 200 because I'm tired of this car being "broken" all the time and not getting fixed (whatever the reason for not being fixed is). I already know they won't replace it for free and I'm fine with that but I just can't picture myself keeping this one any longer either.

I'm still waiting for Chrysler to get back to me. One thing is sure, I'm not getting into any arguments or lawsuit or anything like this with them, if they say no, that will be fine with me and I will accept their first proposition but that will also mean it is my last Chrysler (I bought 10 over the last 27 years from the same dealership so I'm what we can call a loyal customer). That will be my way of letting them know, I don't accept, even the smallest of issue being taken lightly when I'm paying 34k$ for a product.
 
#22 ·
Update: though it's not much of an update... I've now owned this car for 65 days, and spent 33 of those days in a rental car.... and counting. I am supposed to hear from my case manager at Chrysler on tuesday, with more information, but at this point i'm not really holding my breath. Since my last conversation with my case manager I've been pretty blown away, and actually even had some trouble sleeping because of the stress this ordeal has caused. It IS a first year car, and I'd told myself there'd probably be some issues when I decided to roll the dice on this one. I however didn't expect to get such fierce resistance from the manufacturer on the resolution of these issues. I never in a million years, thought I'd have to go as far as taking legal action with them. I guess I am continuing to post here in the hopes that people still trying to decide on whether or not to buy this car, may have a clearer picture of what they could potentially be in for. My recommendation would be to wait till they hammer out the issues, or to go with something else entirely. I will continue post with more info as it becomes available.
 
#23 ·
It's been about a week since my last post and there isn't really much to report. I've been in a rental now for 39 days total. On Monday I sent a certified letter to Chrysler formally requesting a buyback. Upon receipt of that letter they will have 15 days to complete all repairs before I can get my lawyer involved. Hopefully I will have an actual update soon!
 
#24 ·
I'm interested in your situation since your car doesn't start when it's hot and mine as problem starting when it's cold. Different issues, but there's a chance the solution to the problem is the same. Please update this post if and when they find the issue.
 
#25 ·
Mine definitely had starting issues when it was cool out as well. It hasn't been cold here yet, but when it started getting cooler at night I got a non start every night... Super frustrating, and was pretty much leaving me stranded in dark parking lots behind my store. I will keep the thread updated as more info becomes available.
 
#26 · (Edited)
I experienced 2 non starts coming out of work yesterday afternoon. Was pretty pissed at myself as it was not that cold outside so I decided not to record the starting process with my iPhone as I usually do to document my case...Car started properly on the 3rd try.
 
#28 ·
After reading your original post majorstean, it seems to me that your car is losing bus communication between the modules. The bus is probably has a short circuit or open somewhere which would knock out communication for diagnostics as well as give you all these messages you are getting. Could be a problem in a wiring harness somewhere and difficult to find, but a competent tech should be able to diagnose it.
 
#29 ·
By my recollection so far there have been about three forum members reporting no start issues and two or three reporting spontaneous shutdowns while driving. Thankfully this doesn't seem to be a huge frequency relative to the total number of UF owners on the forum. Still, even a few occurrences are significant because of the major inconvenience and safety factor. Even more disturbing is apparently how difficult it has been for the dealers along with Chrysler to diagnose and resolve either problem. It doesn't seem that they have any handle on these issues, or by now when one of them cropped up, it would quickly be fixed.

An intermittent wiring harness / bus issue makes sense as a root cause for either issue, since an intermittent (temperature or vibration dependent?) condition would make it more difficult to diagnose. If that is the problem the obvious concern would be how robust the harness is and how likely these issues are to occur with the rest of our vehicles as they age. Since this is a potential safety issue, not to mention an extremely frustrating one for affected owners, I really hope that Chrysler gets to the bottom of this soon and if necessary there is a recall.
 
#34 ·
Just thinking about your issue some more. Try this test, try starting your car in a slightly different way. Press the start button with out touching the brake pedal, wait about 4 or 5 seconds then depress the brake pedal and try starting the car.
 
#36 ·
Why might that procedure make a difference?
 
#40 ·
Update: Sounds like the next thing they're going to try to replace on my car is a wiring harness. As of talking to the service department today, they're waiting to hear from Chrysler as to which harness they're going to replace. I haven't been contacted by anybody at Chrysler regarding the certified letter I sent last Monday, and I'm still waiting for the return receipt from the letter in the mail. Hopefully some progress in the right direction will be made this week, I'm definitely ready to put this whole experience to rest.
 
#41 ·
Of the 78 days I've owned this car i've been in a rental now for 46 days total. That's a week longer than I've been in the car I purchased. I've been in my current rental car for a month now. I got the return receipt in the mail on Tuesday, saying Chrysler received my certified letter, requesting a buyback of my car, on the 10th. That means that if this isn't completely resolved by the 25th I can get my lawyer involved. I haven't gotten any new information from Chrysler in almost 2 weeks now. Every day that passes i'm astonished by the lack of concern or urgency on these issues by anybody at Chrysler. My case manager has said that all he can do is apologize for the inconvenience, which makes me wonder what the point of talking to him even is. The dealership had already been talking to Chrysler engineers before I ever even filed a claim with Chrysler Customer Service and got this guy involved. I'm ready for this whole ordeal to be over. It feels like I paid $30k to drive around in a rental car, that's maybe a tad crappier than the Civic I traded in to get this car. I'm hoping for a resolution soon, because this sucks.
 
#42 ·
Wow I couldn't imagine dealing with that. I've seen pinched wires in the harness that cause them to ground intermittently which then can either take the BUS down or cause other modules to fault out. This blows my mind that Chrysler Engineering has not jumped on this yet. this should have been pulled from the dealer and taken to their office for further investigation. I'm a big supporter of Chrysler but after reading your detailed report day by day this angers me.

I hope they purchase this back so they can learn from it. This needs to be escalated ASAP. It could be so simple as a seat module wire pinched but they need to tear this down and rebuild it so they can better understand what is causing this.

Wow is all i can say..
 
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#44 ·
Update:

so it looks like they figured out the issue I have been having... They found a "loose bolt connector" in the driver's side dash that wasn't latched and locked into place correctly. This was causing intermittent contact of a few of the car's systems. I got the car back yesterday and everything seems to be working like it's supposed to. What is concerning is that when I was driving the car home from work it was raining out, and the car's steering and handling were very wobbly feeling. I drove through a minor puddle and almost completely lost control of the car. The car seemed to have trouble staying on the road at anything more than about 45mph. This morning I woke up and went to check out the car in the light and found that the insides of both front tires are almost completely worn down to nothing... Worn down to the point that you can see the wires from the inside of the tire.... I guess it's a 5th trip to the service department. Can't help but wonder what's next with this car.
 

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#46 ·
Holy $#|&! Clearly the front end is way out of alignment. Have to wonder if there aren't some loose bolts there too. Sorry to hear you are having even more trouble, but glad to hear you have at least had a diagnosis and putative fix for the original issues. I'd like to know more about the "loose bolt connector", but it sounds as though it's the ground for part of the wiring harness.
 
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