[200_S_AWD]

You are entitled to tell them what has been done up to this point. They shouldn't take it personally or be dismissive. You are only trying to help them.
Give them some more time if they need it. If they still insist on replacing both modules to begin the job, that is very unprofessional. Finding the root cause without part-swapping is the hallmark of a good diagnostician/technician.
Have they seen the failure yet? If it is shifting OK for them at this point, there will be nothing to find in the way of the problem. Frustrating I know.

 

[ShadowGem]

No when they called they still said they don't know what the problem is it's just losing power between the PCM and the TIPM. I asked them to stop working on it and just put it back together because I cannot afford a fortune just for them to diagnose it. They told me so far it's going to be well over $500 that's all they told me. When I drop the car off I told them to let me know once they got to 300 what they came up with because I would have to stop and then save more and borrow more but that's not what's happening so I don't know where to go from here. I'm just so frustrated and depressed I don't know what to do. I so appreciate all your help on here and thank you so very much.

 

[200_S_AWD]

That's just plain wrong. No parts, just labor? $500 & no diagnosis yet? Most shops don't roll like that, not even dealerships.

 

[ShadowGem]

That's just plain wrong. No parts, just labor? $500 & no diagnosis yet? Most shops don't roll like that, not even dealerships.

This is the fourth place I've taken it to and these people are supposed to be good with electrical. I just don't know what to do I guess I'm just going to have to cut my losses and be without a vehicle. With being disabled and on disability it will take me a while to save up money to have it looked at again. But honestly I feel so blessed and thankful that all of you have tried to help me.

 

[JerryCLunsford]

I don’t suppose you got it writing for them to stop at $300?
There are many people here who would do this diagnostic for you free, many would do a simple repair for the cost of the parts. Unfortunately we are scattered all over the place and there is probably no one in your area.
You may not want to consider it but there are groups that will help disabled people with car problems. May be one in your area. Just a thought.

 

[ShadowGem]

Thank you so much Jerry I'm not very smart when it comes to using these smartphones I would not even know how to look for a group in my area. Unfortunately I did not get it in writing. I'm too trusting and it has bitten me several times I should have known better. Thank you for your kind words and advice and I hope you have a very Blessed evening

 

[200_S_AWD]

Shop policy should be posted at the Service write-up area. Policies & hourly rates do vary between shops. At write-up, the policy should be explained clearly to you.
The '5:00 surprise' is unpleasant for both you & the shop. Happy, repeat customers who become regulars is what they strive for & what a successful business is built upon.

The PT Cruizer forum disbanded a while back & quite few members migrated to Allpar. A reunion of sorts. You may find someone closer there than here where we focus on 200s.

The P0882 is easiest to diagnose with OBD2 scan tools to interrogate the PCM & TIPM. Between the 2 modules, they should be able to tell us something, either about each-other or about what they do or don't see that should be there.
Along with the fault code should be a Snapshot or Freeze-frame of what the sensors were reading at the time of the fault code happening. This information can be useful in piecing together the puzzle.
The 'Possible Causes' list isn't that long & a couple of things can be tested with a meter, but an advanced OBD2 scan tool would be the preferred method.

If the P0882 isn't active at the time of testing, it can make the diagnosis more difficult. If you can make it 'act up', then one can go in & look for what is or isn't happening.

Most shops have a 'diagnostic charge' of 1 hour. It is also the 'minimum charge'. If the job exceeds 1 hour labor & requires parts, the shop should pause work, figure out a projected estimate & contact you for an approval or you can decline further work at this time. Shop rates vary by region & other variables. Around here it averages $150-$175 per flat-rate hour.

Were the PCM & TIPM replaced because of the P0882, or did the P0882 happen afterwards?

 

[ShadowGem]

Hello, well I just called them and they gave me like 20 different codes they said they got now. They said it's losing power on the green wire coming out of the PCM to the tipm. Have had this stuff new in it before the p0882 code and no issues then

 

[200_S_AWD]

The 20 fault codes may all be from one issue? I highly doubt that the 20 codes are from 20 different bad parts.
They need to review the 'Possible Causes' of those 20 codes & find out what they may share or have in common.

I assume the they are referring to the LG (light green) wire known as T15. If the T15 is OK & there are no TIPM fault codes, the problem is in the PCM.
If the T15 is OK & there are fault codes in the TIPM, we need to know what that fault code is & move on to that troubleshoot procedure.

At key-on, the TIPM sends 12 volts to the PCM, if the PCM reports no trouble it sends the 12 volts back as a confirmation that is OK to power up the transaxle. If there is a problem, the TIPM will lift the 12 volts to the transaxle & the system will default to 'limp-in'.

Really testing one wire for continuity & 2 modules for fault codes isn't that difficult. Keep me in the loop.

 

[ShadowGem]

Thank you so very much once again I'm going to pass on this information and see if they will receive it.

 

[ShadowGem]

You are entitled to tell them what has been done up to this point. They shouldn't take it personally or be dismissive. You are only trying to help them.
Give them some more time if they need it. If they still insist on replacing both modules to begin the job, that is very unprofessional. Finding the root cause without part-swapping is the hallmark of a good diagnostician/technician.
Have they seen the failure yet? If it is shifting OK for them at this point, there will be nothing to find in the way of the problem. Frustrating I know.

Soooooo after 12 days and they charged me $819.47 but didn't fix anything. Gave me a piece of paper with a bunch of codes on it. I don't understand though it starts right up and runs it just won't shift and is now running rough.

CODE SCAN RESULTS
Systems Analyzed 11

P0700, P1684, P0882 ONLY ONE FREEZE FRAME 10.206 Volts 724 Rpm, BIB56, BIB54, B21C, P128D, B210D, P128B, P128E, B2106, B2215, B2104, B218B, P0700, P0882

 

[200_S_AWD]

P0700 is just the PCM telling you that a code is stored in the TCM. We know that; it's P0882.
P1684 is the PCM saying that the battery was disconnected. Probably to clear the memory.
P1684-BATTERY WAS DISCONNECTED

We already know about P0882. That is the significant code that we are after & the one responsible for 'limp-in'. The freeze-frame charging voltage is too low, it should be around 13-14 volts. The 724 RPM is the engine at idle speed.

The B1B56 & B1B54 are passenger seat belt codes. Is the seat belt or airbag light on?
B1B56-1ST ROW PASSENGER SEAT BELT SENSOR CIRCUIT OPEN

B1B54-1ST ROW PASSENGER SEAT BELT SENSOR CIRCUIT LOW

B210D-BATTERY VOLTAGE LOW. Is the battery warning light on? This would explain the 10 volts in the freeze-frame. The car may have a charging system problem?

B2104-IGNITION RUN/START CONTROL CIRCUIT LOW

B2106-IGNITION RUN/START CONTROL CIRCUIT OPEN

B218B-IGNITION RUN/START 1 CONTROL CIRCUIT OVERCURRENT

B2215-FRONT CONTROL MODULE INTERNAL (TOTALLY INTEGRATED POWER MODULE). This code can only be from a defective TIPM. This code is fatal for the TIPM. It isn't in the wiring. This is where we have to start.

I've run out of attachment space. I'm allowed 10 per post. I'll continue this below.

 

[200_S_AWD]

P128B-TCM POWER CONTROL CIRCUIT 2 LOW - TIPM

P128D-TCM POWER CONTROL CIRCUIT 2 OPEN - TIPM

P128E-TCM POWER CONTROL CIRCUIT 2 OVERCURRENT - TIPM

In all the Possible Causes, the onus is overwhelmingly on the TIPM. Obviously a circuit can't be 'shorted' & 'open' at the same time. Maybe these codes were set during testing or occurred at different times.
If the wiring has been checked & is OK, the components get the blame.
The ORC (occupant restraint module) is a Possible Cause in some cases, but again, I would start with a TIPM. Hopefully it is all that is wrong.
Contact whoever you purchased the replacement TIPM from. Explain your situation & ask if any credit can be issued for a replacement? A repeat customer should count for something. 😉

I could find no B21C. Is it B218C per-chance?

 

[ShadowGem]

P128B-TCM POWER CONTROL CIRCUIT 2 LOW - TIPM
View attachment 71122
P128D-TCM POWER CONTROL CIRCUIT 2 OPEN - TIPM
View attachment 71123
P128E-TCM POWER CONTROL CIRCUIT 2 OVERCURRENT - TIPM
View attachment 71124

In all the Possible Causes, the onus is overwhelmingly on the TIPM. Obviously a circuit can't be 'shorted' & 'open' at the same time. Maybe these codes were set during testing or occurred at different times.
If the wiring has been checked & is OK, the components get the blame.
The ORC (occupant restraint module) is a Possible Cause in some cases, but again, I would start with a TIPM. Hopefully it is all that is wrong.
Contact whoever you purchased the replacement TIPM from. Explain your situation & ask if any credit can be issued for a replacement? A repeat customer should count for something. 😉

I could find no B21C. Is it B218C per-chance?

This was also in his notes
Found no burnt or bad wires in harness found no power coming out of the engine computer to the total integrated power module

 

[200_S_AWD]

This was from post #29. The TIPM sends a 12 volt 'power-on' signal to the PCM/TCM. If everything is OK, it sends the 12 volts back to the TIPM as a confirmation. If this 12 volts isn't getting back to the TIPM, the PCM/TCM will shut down the power to the transaxle & store a P0882.

The Transmission Control Output circuit is used to supply power to the Transmission Solenoid/TRS Assembly and to the PCM when in normal operating mode. The purpose of the Transmission Output circuit is to allow the Transmission Control System to turn off the power to the Transmission Solenoid/TRS Assembly in the event that the transmission should need to be placed into "limp-in" mode due to DTC P0882.

After a PCM reset, (ignition switch turned to the run position, or after cranking the engine) the Transmission Control System verifies that the Transmission Output circuit is open by checking for voltage on the Transmission Output circuits before the Transmission Control System request for the circuit to be powered up. The request is sent by a direct circuit control from the PCM to the TIPM. If the Transmission Control System detects less that 3.0 volts when the output is commanded on, the P0882 DTC will set.

 

[ShadowGem]

Ugh I just ordered a PCM because that's what they told me. I did have it tipm and it didn't change anything so I sent it back. Thank you I wish I understood electrical and I wouldn't have made the mistake of purchasing a pcm

 

[200_S_AWD]

See what the PCM does before you send it back. If you tried a TIPM & had the same issues, maybe the TIPM is OK?
It is difficult to diagnose this without being there. I'm trying to keep this as cheap as possible by only replacing the part you need.
I have to depend on the fault codes that were sent, instead of going deeper into the ones that I consider significant. Fingers crossed! 🤞

 

[ShadowGem]

See what the PCM does before you send it back. If you tried a TIPM & had the same issues, maybe the TIPM is OK?
It is difficult to diagnose this without being there. I'm trying to keep this as cheap as possible by only replacing the part you need.
I have to depend on the fault codes that were sent, instead of going deeper into the ones that I consider significant. Fingers crossed! 🤞

Okay thank you so much for everything through this journey of a nightmare for Me. I just hated paying $819.47 for nothing to be fixed. Have a blessed day and I will update you once I get the part.

 

[200_S_AWD]

Thanks, these things can get maddening at times. The PT does everything well & is fairly simple by today's standards. My dad thought that his 2002 was the best car that he ever owned.
You are much better off keeping this going than having another car payment. Car (& car repair) prices are still crazy since the pandemic.

At this age, all repairs have to be considered 'maintenance'. Keep us informed on the car's recovery. 😉

 

[JerryCLunsford]

If I was close I would see about making a trip. I’m not the best at these computerized engines but, I don’t like throwing parts at a problem with my fingers crossed.