[BMadison]

I'm sorry. You asked that and I forgot.
I'm glad that the oil looks good. Maybe this isn't as bad as I thought.
This is one of the cam sensors, there is another one on the back-side Bank 1 (Sensor1 & Sensor2).

Thank you! I wish I could report back all is well but the mystery got more mysterious! So my brother came over and he decided while he is at it (changing the starter apparently i burnt out trying to crank it ..opps!) to change both camshaft sensors and the crankshaft sensor (again) since I had an oil leak from the valve cover gasket he didn't want to change one at a time. So we did that and the obd then read p0522...so we checked the oil and it was a quart low...added oil as i know if low sometimes these little demons won't start. The CEL went off however the car is not firing still. No CEL comes on now and no codes on OBD even though we did not clear them ourselves. Now we are both scratching our heads like WTH....so where it was firing but misfiring now it's not firing at all with no CEL or codes to diagnose further!! .....I really wanna throw it somewhere lololol...but as a single mom and only car I really need it fixed but lost at this point.

 

[200_S_AWD]

Fault codes may not come back right away after erasing them if the car is at a standstill. The car needs to be driven a distance until fully warmed up, then codes may appear.
How are you erasing these fault codes? Is the fuel level over a 1/4 tank? It may be important for the PCM to learn an 'adaptive numerator' (I love that word) by driving the car in a specific way after erasing codes, so it can set what comes back:

"Chrysler vehicles require three deceleration periods before their crankshaft correction, or Adaptive Numerator, as it's called, can be learned. ... Ford calls its crankshaft correction the Profile Correction Factor, which requires three deceleration periods from 60 to 40 mph with no braking before it's learned".

Performance Perspectives | MOTOR

With the introduction of OBD II, a new diagnostic -tool- was added to the PCM that promised to make the job of misfire detection easier. The idea that a PCM could tell the technician which cylinder was misfiring and how severe the misfire was sounded almost too good to be true. It sounded even...

www.motor.com

Low oil has to be watched carefully. It seems that you had an oil leak, plus whatever oil the car burns. It may not only cause stalling (because of the MultiAir), but is can set those cam sensor codes. Use a 5W-20 meeting Chrysler MS-6395 (it should say this on the jug). Do not overfill. Personally, I recommend a synthetic motor oil.

If you feel a misfire, it is probably still misfiring. Don't run or drive the car too much as misfire can damage the catalytic converter and if this is a head gasket issue, coolant entering a cylinder (#3?) can cause engine damage.

You want this repaired soon as there is a 'point of no return' as far as engine health is concerned.

 

[BMadison]

Fault codes may not come back right away after erasing them if the car is at a standstill. The car needs to be driven a distance until fully warmed up, then codes may appear.
How are you erasing these fault codes? Is the fuel level over a 1/4 tank? It may be important for the PCM to learn an 'adaptive numerator' (I love that word) by driving the car in a specific way after erasing codes, so it can set what comes back:

"Chrysler vehicles require three deceleration periods before their crankshaft correction, or Adaptive Numerator, as it's called, can be learned. ... Ford calls its crankshaft correction the Profile Correction Factor, which requires three deceleration periods from 60 to 40 mph with no braking before it's learned".

Performance Perspectives | MOTOR

With the introduction of OBD II, a new diagnostic -tool- was added to the PCM that promised to make the job of misfire detection easier. The idea that a PCM could tell the technician which cylinder was misfiring and how severe the misfire was sounded almost too good to be true. It sounded even...

www.motor.com

Low oil has to be watched carefully. It seems that you had an oil leak, plus whatever oil the car burns. It may not only cause stalling (because of the MultiAir), but is can set those cam sensor codes. Use a 5W-20 meeting Chrysler MS-6395 (it should say this on the jug). Do not overfill. Personally, I recommend a synthetic motor oil.

If you feel a misfire, it is probably still misfiring. Don't run or drive the car too much as misfire can damage the catalytic converter and if this is a head gasket issue, coolant entering a cylinder (#3?) can cause engine damage.

You want this repaired soon as there is a 'point of no return' as far as engine health is concerned.

Good morning! We didn't erase the codes this time they went away on their own. Also the car has over a 1/2 tank of fuel and I am using the recommended 5w-20 engine oil. At this point my brother has been unable to figure out why there is no fire when attempting to crank. The fuel injectors seems to be working. The fuel pump is definitely pushing the fuel. Besides replacing the camshaft and crankshaft sensors (which we already did), tracing wiring to ensure nothing is burnt, melted, or disconnected. What else could cause the engine not to fire at all? It's not firing at all so no misfire can be read however those codes went away on their own after replacing the sensors. P0522 came on when the camshaft and misfire codes went away, we added oil and the P0522 went away as well. Now the CEL is not on however no firing is happening when attempting to crank it. 😳

 

[200_S_AWD]

Are you using sensors that are OEM? They don't necessarily have to be the factory Mopar ones, but using OEM parts can be important.
I found this out the hard way. ☺

Does a shot of solvent into the throttle body make it fire up briefly? The fuel pressure can be great, but if the injectors aren't opening, you still get no fuel.
If you have no spark, it may be the crank sensor. If it ran with the old sensor, try reinstalling it to try?

 

[BMadison]

Are you using sensors that are OEM? They don't necessarily have to be the factory Mopar ones, but using OEM parts can be important.
I found this out the hard way. ☺

Does a shot of solvent into the throttle body make it fire up briefly? The fuel pressure can be great, but if the injectors aren't opening, you still get no fuel.
If you have no spark, it may be the crank sensor. If it ran with the old sensor, try reinstalling it to try?

I'm not sure if about being OEM. Just purchased from the local autoparts store. The injectors appear to be functional per my brother testing them however no spark. And it was doing the same prior to replacing any of the sensors which is why we are stumped at what it could be.

 

[200_S_AWD]

Any new fault codes?
All fuses OK?
The crankshaft sensor is the one that triggers the spark. It tells the PCM when to fire the spark plug. The cam shaft sensor tells the PCM when #1 cylinder is at TDC (top dead center). From there the PCM can follow the firing order: 1-3-4-2, etc.
Has it done this before and then mysteriously, for no known reason, started working again?

 

[BMadison]

Any new fault codes?
All fuses OK?
The crankshaft sensor is the one that triggers the spark. It tells the PCM when to fire the spark plug. The cam shaft sensor tells the PCM when #1 cylinder is at TDC (top dead center). From there the PCM can follow the firing order: 1-3-4-2, etc.
Has it done this before and then mysteriously, for no known reason, started working again?

No new codes
All fuses appear fine
Never done this before.

I've even tried with my spare key for shi(t)s and giggles 😂 and only thing I notice to mention no matter what i try is if I turn the key to the ON position after it cycles through the dashboard lights the CEL blinks about 10 seconds then goes steady but no codes come up with an OBD scanner.

My brother seems to think my PCM may be gone however I know that's not common so I don't want to jump into replacing it before exhausting all options.

 

[200_S_AWD]

If there is no spark, all 4 coils should have 12 volts on one wire to the coil. The other wire goes to the PCM to be switched on and off as needed.
The 12 volts may only be present for a moment after turning the key to 'run'. If the PCM doesn't detect the engine cranking over, it will lift power from the coils and fuel pump for safety. A coil will only fire once for every 2 revolutions of the crankshaft.
Switching the coil off with the PCM collapses the magnetic field and causes the spark.
I can't see all 4 coils failing at once, but you may want to pull some spark plugs to see if the tips are wet with fuel or black with carbon? Either condition could cause a no start. If the spark plug tips are dry, it may not be getting fuel.

If it still doesn't start with a shot of some flammable spray (like carb cleaner) into the throttle body, the fuel injectors are probably OK.

The last thing needed for an engine to start is proper valve opening (compression) or valve timing.

These 3 things (spark, fuel and engine mechanical) are the basics necessary for the engine to run. One of them isn't playing fair.

 

[Daves200s]

I'm not a professional car guy but with all the attempts to repair and get the car running it could be a simple blown fuse in the ignition circuit... A momentary short while trouble shooting can blow a fuse... A simple test light on both sides of the fuses may show a blown fuse... I see the term "crank" used in these posts... Crank means a physical turning over of the engine (or belts) and doesn't mean the engine is actually running...just turning over...
Also a bad head gasket could allow coolant under pressure to escape through a bad head gasket and into say your cylinder #3 and then out through the exhaust (tail pipe) as white smoke... It doesn't have to end up mixed with the oil (looks like a chocolate milkshake on oil dipstick)... Ask your brother to do a "leak-down" test on cylinder #3 to see if you have air bubbles coming out of the coolant tank... You can do a search on YouTube on "leak down test"...
The lost coolant has to be escaping somewhere and it's probably out the exhaust and you may need to replace a head gasket...
Dave

 

[Jasminej]

The OP was last logged in about 23 months ago, I did send a message and see if they will respond.
Are you experiencing a misfire also?

Hello I'm experiencing a misfire if you could possibly give a few pointers! I just replaced my spark plugs and its still doing the same thing.. very subtle though.. no codes to read either..

 

[200_S_AWD]

Welcome to the forum. What year & engine? Any 'ck eng' light?
Is it a low idle or a rough idle?
What indications do you have that this a misfire if there are no fault codes?

 

[ggoose]

If there is no check engine lamp, I would suggest a 20 oz bottle of Techron next gas fill. I have found it able to smooth out a rough idle and now typically dump a bottle in when I change the oil.

 

[rsaya520]

Welcome to the forums. It could be a few things causing this. Let's do some diagnosis first so you're not just throwing time and money at guesses.
If you had a P0300, pay attention to that code instead of having it choose a particular cylinder to blame.

This is a 4-cylinder? There are 2 different 2.4Ls, one has a sales code of ED3, the other is an EDG. Both are the 'B' engines according to the VIN.
The differences were the ED3 has copper spark plugs (Champion RC12MC4 gapped to 0.044") and the EDG has platinum spark plugs (Champion RC12PMCB3 gapped to 0.032"). The ED3 may not run well with the platinums, especially when cold.
How many miles on these plugs? The Coppers should be changed every 32K miles (52K km) and the platinums should be changed at 102K miles (164K km). The platinums last longer, but the coppers offer a better burn.

The spark plug tips can tell a story about misfire. White tips can indicate a lean mixture. Black, dry tips can indicate a rich mixture and black, oily tips may indicate oil burning from possible engine damage(?)

View attachment 58429

Another misfire issue can leave behind evidence of arcing to ground on both the sparkplug body and the rubber boot for the coil.
Some boots can be replaced without having to replace the entire coil.

View attachment 58430


View attachment 58431

Not related to misfire, but there is a TSB 18-058-17 for a PCM software update:

https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/tsbs/2017/MC-10138911-9999.pdf

Hi, I know you posted somewhere on the forums about how you can tell which 2015 200 2.4 will need the coppers/iridiums, but I can't seem to find it. I think you mentioned there's a sticker on the vehicle somewhere that'll indicate ED3 or EDG right?

 

[200_S_AWD]

For 2015, the 2.4L could be an ED6, ED8, EDD or EDE. A couple of these may be export versions.
Look under the hood for a VECI label. The sales code should be there. If not, send me the last 8 characters of the VIN.

I think that by 2015, all 2.4L were PZEV.
Only a Champion Platinum plug is listed.

 

[rsaya520]

For 2015, the 2.4L could be an ED6, ED8, EDD or EDE. A couple of these may be export versions.
Look under the hood for a VECI label. The sales code should be there. If not, send me the last 8 characters of the VIN.
View attachment 60257


I think that by 2015, all 2.4L were PZEV.
Only a Champion Platinum plug is listed.
View attachment 60258

Didn't see the sales code unfortunately.
Last 8 of VIN: FN579158
Local dealer has the OEM Mopar plugs in stock but for $23/each. I'm not even sure my issue is with the plugs so didn't want to drop that much.
Picked up a pack of the NGK IX Iridium plugs instead. Hoping they'll do

 

[200_S_AWD]

It's an ED6, Flex Fuel. Check your mailbox.
These plugs have a 100K mile service life. Have you actually had a misfire code?

Are you still dealing with the P1062 & P1067? Plugs probably won't fix those as they are an engine valve solenoid/timing issue.

The NGK parts catalog listing:

 

[rsaya520]

It's an ED6, Flex Fuel. Check your mailbox.
These plugs have a 100K mile service life. Have you actually had a misfire code?

Are you still dealing with the P1062 & P1067? Plugs probably won't fix those as they are an engine valve solenoid/timing issue.

The NGK parts catalog listing:
View attachment 60262

Thanks for the info. Yes I consistently get P1062 & P1067 codes when the misfiring happens.
I did get get a P0301 (I think it was) that said cylinder 1 misfire. However, this was only once.
I popped in a new MAP sensor which seemed to help at first cause it was idling much smoother but not even 2 days later it happened again.

It's strange to me that the misfiring happens so sporadically. I've tested several situations to see if there was some kind of "trigger" but nothing. It seems to be totally random.
When it does happen, immediate CEL accompanied by major loss of engine power, shaking and sputtering but it doesn't shut off or stall out until I shut it off manually.

What totally baffles me though is once I hook up the OBD/clear codes, it's drivable again. Sometimes for a week or more.
When I say it's drivable again, I mean it'll get me from A to B, but it definitely isn't driving how it was 2 months ago before this started.
Major decrease in engine power, delayed/sluggish shifting, rough idle, increase in fuel consumption. Basically all the typical misfire symptoms.

Side note: I highly doubt either would be the cause but a muffler delete was done when I first got the car, and I am also currently running a throttle controller (RoarPedal). At the moment it IS still connected but I switched it to 'OFF' mode since the misfires started.

 

[200_S_AWD]

If you still have the cats, they can be damaged by rich mixtures and/or 'misfire'. It sounds like the fuel mixture is way out of range because of the #2 cylinder valve solenoid problem.
I would get this taken care of soon or the cats may meltdown & need replacement.
Continuing to drive the car like this isn't good for it.
Revisit the Possible Causes of P1062 & P1067.
It is doubtful that this is an electrical or ignition problem. The only reason that the fuel mixture may be off, is because of the valve solenoid/actuator issue.
If you have tried the scan tool VVT cleaning procedure, then I would suspect engine mechanical' namely the oiling system and MultiAir valve actuators for cylinder #2.

 

[rsaya520]

If you still have the cats, they can be damaged by rich mixtures and/or 'misfire'. It sounds like the fuel mixture is way out of range because of the #2 cylinder valve solenoid problem.
I would get this taken care of soon or the cats may meltdown & need replacement.
Continuing to drive the car like this isn't good for it.
Revisit the Possible Causes of P1062 & P1067.
It is doubtful that this is an electrical or ignition problem. The only reason that the fuel mixture may be off, is because of the valve solenoid/actuator issue.
If you have tried the scan tool VVT cleaning procedure, then I would suspect engine mechanical' namely the oiling system and MultiAir valve actuators for cylinder #2. View attachment 60264

View attachment 60266

I had it happen again a few hours ago and got these same codes. I'd say it's obvious at this point that's what it is and as far as I'm aware, this isn't a DIY job (at least not for the likes of my automotive knowledge and ability.)

This would also explain why I started experiencing the misfires almost immediately after I did an oil change. I just don't understand how or what could have went wrong. I do my own oil changes precisely cause I want to make sure it's done right and nothing careless happens. The only thing I can possibly think would have set this off was using a different filter. None of my local auto stores or even Walmart had Mopar filters in stock so I went with (what was supposed to be) an equivalent FRAM filter.

Based mostly on what you said and the obvious, I'm just going to go ahead and take it in to the stealership and let them bend me over 😤 Like most folks these days, I don't personally know a trustworthy/reliable mechanic so will to pay the price I guess.

 

[200_S_AWD]

You want to use an API-certified 5W-20 motor oil that meets Chrysler MS-6395. Read the label.
It doesn't have to be a Mopar filter, These are also acceptable:

I don't know why it chooses the #2 cylinder to pick on.
Begin with the diagnostic (minimum) charge (usually 1 hour). They will call you with an diagnosis & estimate if it goes over the minimum.
There are just some things best left to the dealer service departments. They have the tools, skills & correct parts.
Some are genuinely helpful. It is good to establish a friendly discourse with an honest & capable dealership. Especially for times like this.