[Black Knight]

I’m curious, the 200s AWD is supposed to do 0-60 in 6 seconds according to the specs. Has anyone ever tested that.


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Yep. Do a search on here.

Auto editors have tested the 15+ FWD @ 5.7 0-60 on regular gas and 6.0 for the AWD.

 

[lightsout190]

Yep. Do a search on here.

Auto editors have tested the 15+ FWD @ 5.7 0-60 on regular gas and 6.0 for the AWD.

Makes sense as the AWD version adds extra weight to the car.

 

[lightsout190]

I respectfully disagree. I get what you are saying but I think the majority of the vehicles actually on the road do not fall into that category. Just because there are a few upper trim family sedans with near that spec doesn't mean it's average for a middle weight vehicle.

Average is still not quite 200HP for a sedan... Look at rental car fleets. So many 4cyl Altima's, Camry's and what have you. The 200 with a 184HP 4 cylinder outsold the V6 by a large margin. Next time you are on the road, look around, most vehicles don't even have 200HP.

Just because there are a few high priced fairly rare/ridiculously expensive/bad to the bone 700HP engines out there doesn't make 300HP average now.

If 300HP was average, a Corolla would have ~260HP lol... The V6 200 would have near 500HP.

I like muscle cars and old 70's cars, but I don't want some outdated factory under-powered (HP per liter) gas hog, 3-speed automatic carburated RWD car with a live rear axle to drive back and forth to work and wrench on every 5 minutes. I have already been there and done that and wrote the book. I get enough of that with my RWD 98 Dakota - but I really like my truck.

My 200 would run circles around my old 78 Camaro with a 71' 350 pulled from a Corvette AND I can drive it in the snow and get traction, and get more than teens for MPG - let's not start talking about handling...

If a person can't ever get past being old school and can't recognize anything besides a live axle rear drive car made to go down the 1/4 mile and no need to turn left or right more than a few MPH... then OK.. the 200 isn't worth modification. It doesn't fit that category. Don't get me wrong. I would love a restored 70 Olds 442.. yeah I know a ton of people hate on the 455 rocket etc... but it has something these new cars being stamped just don't have. Hard to describe it.

10 year old muscle car won't work for me either... Snow. MPG. Still too old. I need a sedan. I don't want to have a car payment for buying gasoline. Could I have bought an AMG E63 used for the same as my car new? Sure - with too many miles, inherited issues and poor MPG.

So what does that leave one to do? Enjoy what they have and make the best of it.

Sorry to go off topic.

I agree the 295 HP and 262 lbs of torque in the V6 is quite impressive for that segment and class of car. So I believe it is also not average. I know there are similar sized lexus's and Infinity's that are putting out that and more, but they are in a different class and price range. It was because of the power and AWD which made me choose the 200S. My wife drives a new VW Jetta which is a great car, but it only puts out 147 HP which is average.

 

[Tyler-98-W68]

AWD



FWD

 

[Tyler-98-W68]

Here is an interesting article about the AWD and 4X4 systems of FCA cars including the 200 and Cherokee.

https://www.tflcar.com/2015/03/chrysler-dodge-jeep-4x4-awd-systems-snow-ice/

The thing is how they are described and what happens in the real world are different. There is no way for the ADII system to send 100% power to the rear wheels that would indicate that no power goes to the front wheels and short of disconnecting the front axle shafts, it doesn't happen.

In reality the vehicle sends up to 50% power to the rear wheels and no more. I"ve tested in my garage with all different kinds of jack stands and it doesn't matter what mode the rear end gets power but never more than the front.

In my Cherokee, Auto mode

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gRw7ioc7n7w

Now Sport mode

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-DevUFZdpEY

See any difference in how the power is sent to the rear? I don't both the front and rear wheels spin at the same time,

 

[lightsout190]

The thing is how they are described and what happens in the real world are different. There is no way for the ADII system to send 100% power to the rear wheels that would indicate that no power goes to the front wheels and short of disconnecting the front axle shafts, it doesn't happen.

In reality the vehicle sends up to 50% power to the rear wheels and no more. I"ve tested in my garage with all different kinds of jack stands and it doesn't matter what mode the rear end gets power but never more than the front.

In my Cherokee, Auto mode

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gRw7ioc7n7w

Now Sport mode

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-DevUFZdpEY

See any difference in how the power is sent to the rear? I don't both the front and rear wheels spin at the same time,

But this is not a normal condition for the car to be in, the tires are off the ground so there is little to no traction. Even in sport mode the AWD would change do to traction conditions. On a dry hard surface in sport you may get a 40/60 front to rear split. But throw in some ice on the road surface and I am sure the AWD torque split changes. I remember coming home one day in my 200S AWD driving in sport mode and my driveway was covered in ice because of an ice storm. When I tried to drive up it my front tires started to spin like crazy after the rear tires were spinning. They even began to spin faster then the rear. I believe this was because of the AWD system trying to get the best traction.

What I was pointing to earlier is that even though the Cherokee and the 200 share the same AWD system the Cherokee, especially the trailhawk is much more versatile and you have greater control over how it functions. I am sure your trailhawk could have made it up my driveway easily were my 200S struggled. And the trailhawk can go places that the 200 AWD can't even dream of and thats not just because of the ground clearance or tires.

 

[Black Knight]

See any difference in how the power is sent to the rear? I don't both the front and rear wheels spin at the same time,

So here's my question then. How do any of them do it - that is send more power to front or rear - torque vectoring? Doesn't it have something to do with "slippage" like a torque converter on a transmission but in the differential...?

How would they know to measure the percentages? Wouldn't there have to be a load on both front and rear wheels besides just the spinning of the wheels to see a difference?

 

[Tyler-98-W68]

So here's my question then. How do any of them do it - that is send more power to front or rear - torque vectoring? Doesn't it have something to do with "slippage" like a torque converter on a transmission but in the differential...?

How would they know to measure the percentages? Wouldn't there have to be a load on both front and rear wheels besides just the spinning of the wheels to see a difference?

There is no torque vectoring.

PTU bolted to transmission, PTU spins driveshaft to rear differential. Torque transfer device in rear differential applies the torque, just because the PTU spins the driveshaft doesn't mean the rear end engages. There is no literature to support the rear differential getting more power than 50% engine power.

Here is a video of the driveshaft at the front next to the ptu

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UdiKEgMRpuI&t=20s

Now at the back where it enters the RDM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SqsvXOkrDUU

The driveshaft does not spin any faster when in sport mode (which would indicate an overdrive gear in the PTU)

I'm pretty sure it was just bad marketing terms when they say sport mode sends 60% power to the rear. I can slide around corners and kick the back end out in Auto mode just the same as I can in sport mode. Both modes send power to the rear wheels.

 

[Black Knight]

There is no torque vectoring.

There is no literature to support the rear differential getting more power than 50% engine power.

I'm pretty sure it was just bad marketing terms when they say sport mode sends 60% power to the rear. I can slide around corners and kick the back end out in Auto mode just the same as I can in sport mode. Both modes send power to the rear wheels.

I saw your vids. There is some literature that says up to 60% to the rear wheels, not just in sport mode either - but the information was marketing literature from FCA...

I am not arguing one way or the other, I am just trying to make sense of it... I never understood "60%" more to the rear wheels anyway. Maybe it's cause the AWD is 50/50 and when you step on it - weight transfer.. LOL if so, that's some interesting hair splitting marketing, cause technically they are right - 60-90% more traction to the rear - and thus more power to the rear wheels at launch depending on how far you step on it etc... LOL I bet that's it.

All those automotive brands can't all be bad marketing - some of them sure... Then again I suppose they can all be full of it ex.. "Skyactive Technology" LOL

Guess I will research it just out of curiosity at some point, just in general not necessarily Jeep/Chrysler etc...

 

[lightsout190]

There is no torque vectoring.

PTU bolted to transmission, PTU spins driveshaft to rear differential. Torque transfer device in rear differential applies the torque, just because the PTU spins the driveshaft doesn't mean the rear end engages. There is no literature to support the rear differential getting more power than 50% engine power.

Here is a video of the driveshaft at the front next to the ptu

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UdiKEgMRpuI&t=20s

Now at the back where it enters the RDM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SqsvXOkrDUU

The driveshaft does not spin any faster when in sport mode (which would indicate an overdrive gear in the PTU)

I'm pretty sure it was just bad marketing terms when they say sport mode sends 60% power to the rear. I can slide around corners and kick the back end out in Auto mode just the same as I can in sport mode. Both modes send power to the rear wheels.

I can kick the back end out going around corners too in my 200s both in drive or sport mode. But that’s because when doing a corner 70% torque is sent to the rear wheels at a point during the cornering regardless of whether it’s in sport mode or not. I posted this a while ago with the literature to show it.

And there is literature which explains how 60% torque is sent to the rear in sport mode. And it’s not from FCA either. When I dig it up I will post it. I’ve posted it before on this forum.


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[Tyler-98-W68]

From all my testing, I still don't believe it sends MORE power to the rear than 50% its not a gear multiplication in the PTU, and if there is it may be in the RDM however i'm still very skeptical of that.

Also your link you posted a while back doesn't work anymore as i've found it

 

[Tyler-98-W68]

Unless you were talking about this

AWD operation
AWD has separate strategies for Normal and Sport modes. In Normal, the system prefers front-drive for fuel economy, but may switch automatically to AWD under certain conditions, including detection of a low-traction road surface and driver operation of the throttle. At road speeds under 9 mph (15 km/h), AWD also automatically engages to anticipate a possible sudden hard acceleration or any acceleration if the road surface traction drops, as detected by vehicle chassis electronics. When AWD is engaged, the split is 60-40 front-rear, although the dynamic multi-map electronics can push it to a maximum of 50-50.
AWD is an always-on, key part of Sport Mode, and the electronic stability control (ESC) broadens the allowable yaw range. As managed by the Drivetrain Control Module, AWD is engaged both front-to-rear and at the rear axle; no rear axle disconnect is possible as as it is in Normal mode.
There's always some rear torque bias in Sport Mode, derived from the accelerator pedal position and the delta from the previous position. The actual Sport Mode torque transfer to the rear is based on the available torque from the engine, vehicle speed, yaw rate, and vehicle grade. The system uses an enhanced torque map for launch modes, although there is no specific launch control system for the driver to select on the 200.

I've had the PTU and my driveshaft replaced on my cherokee, and prior to them being replaced (due to bearings) it was super easy to know exactly when the rear end was getting power as, it made noise as power was sent to the rear wheels. The AWD operating below 9mph is 100% accurate and it always engages on takeoff however it can and will disenegae at temps below 37f after you get up to speed ~20mph. It gradually tapers off after initial acceleration.

2 other time it would engage when it was not engages is.

1. Using ERS (electronic range select) on the cherokee it just limits the max gear the trans can be in
2 If the ESP button was turned off (either partial or full off) that started sending power to the rear wheels.

Again there is literature out there explaining how things work, but it doesn't always explain ALL the variables

 

[lightsout190]

I believe that was one of the links I posted a while back as it sounds very familiar. But I believe that was more about how the sport mode worked and tied into the AWD system. You made the point how the AWD system is active at 0-9 mph. That would indicate that your garage test is inconclusive because with the amount of acceleration you were giving you wouldn't have been over 9 mph, therefore your car would be in AWD regardless of whether your in auto or sport. I am not betting my house that there is a 60% torque split to the rear wheels in sport mode but I am not disputing it either. Honestly, to really get a true test of how this performs you would need to run tests under different variables using very advanced and expensive equipment. None of which any of us have, but what FCA and other automotive engineers would have. So we are basically left to trust and believe what is reported to us by different sources.

 

[Tyler-98-W68]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SUdsGOZ4xTI

Torque biasing is handled in the rear diff, but again as per the illustration i see up to 50% of engine torque going to the rear, no more.

 

[lightsout190]

Different cars AWD systems handle differently regardless of the fact that they use the same components or platforms. The Jeep Grand Cherokee Trailhawk's AWD system is not performing the same as the Tackhwk's is. They are programed to behave differently. The trackhawk sends 70% torque to the rear when in track mode. There is no way it could be doing what it does with a 50 - 50 split. Same goes for Audi's. I don't find it hard to believe that the 200 while in sport mode sends 60% to the rear. And maybe the Cherokee does not do that because it's not meant to. Regardless of the fact that the Cherokee and 200 use the same platform and share the same components they behave differently on the road and I am sure the AWD systems behave differently. The 200 was reported even if it was by FCA as putting 60% torque to the rear in sport mode. Maybe this is specific to only the 200 and not other FWD based AWD vehicles by FCA. Have you read anything saying that the Cherokee sends 60% torque to the rear? Maybe it only sends 50% max to the rear. These two vehicles are not the same. The Cherokee is an off road capable SUV and the the 200 V6 AWD is a powerful mid sized sedan that handles well at high speeds. So I am sure that the AWD systems are programed to what each type of vehicle requires. If I were to be driving home in a bad snowstorm, I would rather be in the trailhawk. But if I were driving on a dry hwy and needed to get somewhere fast and cut in and out of traffic I would rather be driving my 200S.

 

[Scooter]

Definitely not a rocket ship but my 200c beat a 2019 mustang eco boost from a dig and roll every single time even if he got the hit... So I'd say she scoooots. Even with less hp and being heavier. Now making it happen includes.. well.. Money and I don't have it. But when I do... expect a crazy 200 build ?


QUOTE=Tyler-98-W68;639120]

I'd rather have the genius ideas and you be the Guinea Pig, after all this is a Chrysler 200 Forum!

Well I have been since no one else has modified the Pentastar 3.2L except me. Also introduced this community to a tuner who really knows what they are doing and have my VVT Cams tuned.

Sorry to break it to you pal but your 200 is nearly all cherokee parts, I just happen to drive a lifted 200. What you will see from my limited posts is that I have substance and no just babbling about "my car is such a rocket ship ect" I stick to realistic facts and information for people. You are the one talking big so make it happen. I've already done lots for the cherokee community including being the one to prove they could be tuned when they "weren't supported" Oh and FYI a mid 14 second car is not a "rocket ship" in terms of speed. Its simply a little faster than most sporty cars.[/QUOTE]

 

[Pentastar V6 Performance]

1. Working with sprintex to add some boost. Waiting on the gen 2 blower for the Grand Cherokee to be released.

 

[1350S]

Here is the update on my 200, the battery was relocated to the trunk to make room for the Turbo.

15 new items by Ryan Prettyman

photos.app.goo.gl

 

[RuNNerxJ]

1. View attachment 56544 Working with sprintex to add some boost. Waiting on the gen 2 blower for the Grand Cherokee to be released.

Uhhhh more?

 

[Pentastar V6 Performance]

Uhhhh more?

Still waiting on sprintex